“ Essentially, this is just snobbary when it comes down to it. People who use OSs other than windows do so for whatever reason, and feel that they should punish any user who wont make the move to the said operating system. I will never move entirely to Apple or Linux because I think Windows does a lot of things better and for that reason will always be my main platform “
I think that it's pure Snobbary that several Windows apps aren't ported for Linux...............................
Like IIS, asp, dot net...... (kidding)
And that's the problem Tim - whichever way you look at it, the winner is Microsoft.
Perhaps one of the basic problems is that the "free" software philosophy has gotten itself misinterpreted along the way. The intention of free sofware was always that it would be free, as in "speech" - not free, as in "beer". Unfotunately though, too many people seem to find it difficult to differentiate between the two.
In the Windows world, there's a culture that if something is worth having, it's worth paying for. That culture seems somehow to have got lost in the Linux world - and Linux devs are the poorer for it (literally).
I guess that the bottom line is that in the longer term, a Windows version couldn't (and wouldn't) offer any benefit to the Ardour developers. Even ignoring the technical hurdles, if hundreds of thousands of new Windows users suddenly jumped on board it would undoubtedly make life a lot more difficult. And even if a Windows version could be made "chargeable" - and even if those users were willing to pay for it - it could only be a matter of time before someone brought out a free (as in "beer") version.
Despite its noble origins, it seems like "free software" will always be perceived to be free, as in "beer".
"In the Windows world, there’s a culture that if something is worth having, it’s worth paying for".
That's why lots of people run pirated software and you can find cracks even for shareware.
thorwil - look around you. The world is full of de-chipped mobile phones, forged passports, fake jewellery, counterfeit goods and smuggled booze. It's a simple fact that where there's money to be made, there'll be criminal activity. This kind of thing has been going on for centuries. But it doesn't alter the fact that most people will pay for anything that's worth having.
This thread is becoming out of topic. Nobody could care less about whether one should pay for good software or not. The ardour dev's published their code under the GPL, and so on. That's their choice. Who are you (we) to criticize this ? who are you (we) to complain that they don't bother porting their soft to win32 ? I personally don't give a crap. I have been using unix and linux since I started using computers. Linux has become my platform of choice, and that's just how it is for me. Not for the majority, and so what ? I am so grateful for an app like ardour to exist primarily on the OS I am using everyday. I donated money. If I were less broke, I would even subscribe, that's the least I could do. The rest is philosophical crap. If I were using windows daily, I would have as I said earlier a tremendous choice for my audio work, I would not even bother knowing about ardour, jack, etc. So what is this discussion about ? Claiming that "the devs are punishing non linux or mac users" is the most idiotic thing I have ever read on this forum. I hope that whoever mentioned this realizes the total irrelevance and idiotic nature of such a statement.
Regarding the statement “In the Windows world, there’s a culture that if something is worth having, it’s worth paying for” : Windows is a business model, so windows users must either comply with it or break the agreement they had to accept when they acquired windows one way or another. Therefore, money is naturally a central issue in this model. Linux is NOT a business model. So why coming up with statement like this ?
Given that anyone running Windows has a computer that will happily dual-boot a Linux distro, it could be far better for everyone if those wishing to use Ardour do so like this. You have to remember that Jack allows lots of programs to interconnect; even if there was a good Windows port of Ardour you'd still want ports of all the other stuff. Simply dual-booting keeps Windows intact _and_ gives you access to a low-latency kernel and all the goodies. I think you need to live in the Linux ecosystem for a while before the power of Jack (anything can patch into anything else) really becomes apparent. Learning a bit of Linux is actually great in terms of understanding what is happening 'in the box' (I've been using music software for 15 years and it's been great for me). The devs can then concentrate on making the core software better.
I don't think that anyone is saying that Windows is inferior, but (again) there are plenty of options on that platform. Dual-booting would give you _so_ much more than Ardour (sequencing, synthesis, effects etc.).
What would be the problems with this as a solution? (I write this as a Linux and OS X user and I'm genuinely intrigued rather than trying to be a smart arse)
mattb - I don't think there's anything wrong with that approach. In fact, I'd guess that the majority of people on this forum are either running Linux/Wine or dual-booting Linux & Windows. However....
1) 95% of the world doesn't work that way; and
2) Can a product really call itself 'cross-platform' if it ignores the platform used by 95% of the market?
What it boils down to is whether Ardour should reach the masses or stay in a niche market. Neither path is inherently right or wrong but it's clear from the postings here that many users feel Ardour to be a good enough product to be up there, competing with the heavyweights - like Pyramix, Pro Tools & Nuendo. That's never going to happen while it ignores Windows.
You're probably right that 95% of people or so use Windows, although I don't know how many have chosen to do so. I really don't think that you need software to run on Windows for it to be a 'pro' app; I have been a pro engineer for over 10 years and I haven't worked in one studio that has Windows running the DAW. Semi-pro/home users are probably the market here. Macs are dominant in pro work, and Ardour is happy on a Mac. This does indeed make it cross-platform; Windows doesn't have to be one of the platforms! Logic Pro and Digital Performer 'ignore the masses', but as they are targeted at the pro end they don't suffer as a result. Once again, we're talking about commercial apps, and the same rules don't apply here.
Interesting discussion. Cheers!
I'm no genius, by any means, but I DID discover this from Microsoft's website about some kind of POSIX subsystem built into the new Windows 7....
Perhaps this may be the answer to Win32 porting? at least for Windows 7 anyway.... and therefore, Windows Server 2008 R2.
" Essentially, this is just snobbary when it comes down to it. People who use OSs other than windows do so for whatever reason, and feel that they should punish any user who wont make the move to the said operating system. I will never move entirely to Apple or Linux because I think Windows does a lot of things better and for that reason will always be my main platform"
I know it's been 2 or more years since most of these comments were made but I saw this at work today and need to post something in response so I can sleep well tonight.
The point about snobbery is irrelevant. The fact that Ardour and Linux are free goes to show that the Ardour/Linux community, overall, is inclusive and not exclusive. If you need help installing Ubuntu Studio so you can start recording or editing your music then please feel free to send me a message on this site and I will provide you with FREE tech support over the phone.
I really hope that someone takes me up on this offer. My coding skills do not make me of much use for contributing to Ardour but I have compiled it from source, used it for over 100 hours to produce four albums for 2 different bands and I have free long distance so I will do what I can to help.
If the following link isn't enough to get you started then please send me a message and I will help.
Your subscriptions & donations are critical help that make it possible for full-time development of Ardour to continue. Your support is critical and much appreciated.
August goal US$4500 (US$54k/yr)
Subscribers 1022 US$1599/month
Support Ardour, get free upgrades: pay $1, $4, $10 or $50/month for a year: