midi-sync

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linuxchaos
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Joined: 2008-03-06
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hello everybody,

i already asked some month ago, but now i try again (sorry about that, but this is really important for me):

i want ardour to send midi-clock. and i really need that feature!
an i think, that i'm not alone. there is a lot of professional equipment, that does not support mtc, but only midi-clock (and sometimes mmc).
to give some examples: a lot of grooveboxes work that way (clock and mmc - no mtc). a lot of professional fx work that way for synced-delays and stuff like that (even without mmc - only clock). a lot of synthesizers or keyboards, that do not have a sequencer use midi-clock for the appegiator or for syncing the lfos). and also very important for me: old analog synths (moog, sequencial circuits and all that old roland-, korg- and yamaha-stuff etc.) need midi-clock for syncing lfo or appegiator via a midi2cv-interface...
so for people who do electronic music (like me), its really very very important to use ardour.

i am not a programmer, but i think i should not be a big problem, to generate midi-clock put of mtc or smtp...

what about that idea?

would be great :-)

greetings
l.chaos

paul
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Joined: 2006-03-16
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MIDI clock and MTC are completely different creatures. Most people don't understand this.

MIDI clock is based on musical time: bars and beats.

MIDI time code is based on "absolute" time: audio and/or video frames.

One is not a substitute for the other. I agree that it would be very good for Ardour to be able to send MIDI clock. The process of generating it, however, is very, very different to what is involved in generating MIDI time code. There is also the issue that MTC is designed so that the receiver can (and must) interpolate (or "smooth") out the apparent rate, thus allowing the transmitter some sloppiness in how precisely it sends the data. MIDI clock does not have this property. The receiver can rightfully interpret variations in the arrival rate of the 24 "ticks" per beat to represent variations in tempo. It is therefore much more of a challenge to correctly transmit MIDI clock so that a receiver will do the right thing.

We *will* do this eventually, but first I need a brainstorming session that ends up with a great idea for how to do it right.

paul
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Also, not to be money-obsessed, but assuming that you "really need this feature", can I assume that you're already a subscriber and/or that you'd be prepared to help pay for its implementation?

Ardour recently lost a substantial part of its corporate support, so these issues are somewhat important at this time.

linuxchaos
User offline. Last seen 3 years 19 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-03-06
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hello paul,

thanks a lot for your reply!

i did not understand everything about what makes the midi-clock difficult, but as i said before, i'm not a programmer and i trust you with that...

great, that you say, that you are thinking about that (seemed different to me, when i asked last time - but perhaps i was wrong with that)!
if you need thinking-help from a non-programmer or later help for testing - i'm always there for things like that (there are always times, where i do not find the time to look around here, so in case you "need me" you can reach me with this adress: linux_chaos at yahoo dot de)...

the subscriber-question is not money-obsessed (i know in this case, there would be better jobs for you). i will think about that, but at the moment its hard for me. i am talking with some people about a little better money-earning-job this summer (theatre-music), but nothin is shure right now. if that job will happen, i could take the chance and get a subscriber.
as i said: i will really think about how to help with money...

great, that there is at least a little interest on the midi-clock-topic! if nothing happens, i will remind you, when i have money for subscribing :-)

greetigs from berlin
l.chaos

allank
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User offline. Last seen 6 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 2006-12-07
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Hey All

I really need this feature but in reverse.. I'd rather Ardour be able to read and respond accurately to MIDI clock.

For similar reasons to the writer above, but with

(Yes Paul, I'm a subscriber on my second 12 month subscription...)

I've had a play with the SVN version (via gentoo pro-audio svn ebuild) it doesn't seem to work with any kind of stability.. so hopefully that can come into play..

UNfortunately I've just moved house and don't have the studio presently setup to be able to report bugs.. (I will also need to learn how to run multiple versions on my system, so I can keep using ardour 2.x for production purposes as I have a couple of remixes due in the coming months... )

Allan K
sonofzev
Littlewolf Music
Melbourne Australia

alb
User offline. Last seen 3 years 34 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2007-11-06
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Hello,
my first post here so pls excuse my eventual clumsiness. This is how I record Arpeggios from HW synths in Ardour (I hate to think I should go to a different application to do so). Sorry if it's not exactly a clean Ardourian solution, but it works seamlessly even on my ancient box.(I'm on Fedora 9 rt kernel, planet ccrma)
The method uses Ardour as a Time Master and synced application Seq24
http://www.filter24.org/seq24
as a source of MIDI Clock signal

start JACK
start ARDOUR, set it as Time Master (green button on) and sync source (above the button) should be JACK
-start Seq24, create new blank 1 bar pattern
-make the following settings in Seq24 (File>Options):

MIDI Clock tab: use the radio buttons to route the clock signal to your MIDI device (if it's plugged in, it should be on the list, otherwise choose a port and do the routing in Jack Connect)
Jack Sync tab: tick only Jack Transport box, select Live Mode, click on Connect
that's all

The tempo is determined by the ARDOUR tempo ruler (therefore can be variable!!!!), doesn't matter what BPM is set in Seq24
I can use both the JACK and ARDOUR transport controls for start/stop
the only price I pay is that I lose the AutoReturn possibility, but kb shortcuts like Home work normally of course.

enjoy your synced arpeggios!

superhubba
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Joined: 2009-10-03
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Thanks allot for this information! At last i managed to get in sync with my mssiah!