Metering

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braaimanook
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Hello All

Have just moved over to Ubuntu from Windows and am trying to emulate the sort of setup I had then ie Cubase some NI vsts etc. I am using Ardour as the DAW and need some friendly advice.

I have an input from Hydrogen going into a channel strip. No sends no redirects, the meter reads the input signal, but does not show anything on prefade or postfade selection. Does the signal not flow from input to output via the fader.

Second point to which the first is probably connected, I do not seem to be able to get the fader to control the level, its as though the signal is not reaching that far down the strip but if I disconnect the output the sound dies, so it seems that it is.

I would be grateful if someone more knowledgeable could advise me, I have obviously got something screwed up somewhere.

Thank You

thorgal
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not sure why you don't see any volume meter on pre or post fader but chances are that what you hear is a direct output connection from hydrogen to your system. If you replace the track by a bus in ardour, you will hear hydrogen through ardour. If you want to hear hydrogen through an ardour track, you have to turn on software monitoring and arm the track for recording.

EDIT: no, you said the sound died so it's not hydrogen-to-system

braaimanook
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Thorgal

thank you for yr reply, interestingly there was another post with virtually the identical problem, the poster then realised that he needed to arm the track to see the meters. BUT, this doesn't work here, what happens is, if I have selected post fade there is no reading, if I then click Record on the strip, the meter then switches over to input and the meter reacts appropriately.

It seems to a routing problem but with so simple a setup,I can't see it.

Thank You

calimerox
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maybe try to edit your channel strip input and output again... and define input and output channel new.. i remember that something like this one time solved my problem.....

Pablo Fernández
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Hi braaimanook,
You can run qjackctl (JACK Control in the menu) before starting hydrogen and ardour, what do your connections look like?
I like to make the connections through qjackctl (connect button) where I can see the routing of all the "jack aware" audio and MIDI apps at a glance.
I've tested this simple set up:
Jack, hydrogen and ardour.
In ardour, one mono track (audio1) with two outputs and one stereo bus (bus1).
Check that you have, in the audio tab (and if not, make the connections):
From hydrogen outputs to ardour audio 1 input.
From audio1 outputs to bus1 inputs
From bus1 outputs to system playbacks
Disconnect hydrogen output to system playbacks if any (they seem disconnected as thorgal comments)
Arm the track and choose software monitoring in options->monitoring (or "Ardour does monitoring" in more recent versions).

I hope this helps

Pablo

braaimanook
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calimerox

I did as you suggested but exactly the same result and not surprising really because

Pablo Fernandez

your remark about setting the monitoring to software monitoring was the answer. It was my lack of experience with the program that was the trouble.

Thank you both very much for your time and replies.

It is this sort of spirit of helpfulness that makes me glad I moved to Linux

braaimanook

thorgal
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I told you about software monitoring in my 1st post. But never mind, I think I will stop posting in this forum. If you have a problem, just join the IRC channel. I finally agree with Paul, this way of interacting is the least effective.

Benjamin Scherrer
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braaimanook,

I think this is the normal behaviour on a normal track. Since there's nothing recorded on the track, you can't see a metering on the pre or post, only on the input. You can listen to it, since Ardour let you use software monitoring (And then control the gain with the fader). To use the pre- and post-fader on a not-recorded sound-source, you have to use busses, that's the way it works.
It's a matter of design, and I think it's logical :)

Thorgal: Yes, but a forum is better to search for solutions. Without it, each day 10 people would ask the same question on irc - well, if that's not the case already :)

Benjamin

braaimanook
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Thorgal

the tone of your post seems to indicate you are a little miffed.

Rereading your first post, yes you did indeed mention the monitoring,however my eyes were drawn to your edit at the end and so I completely overlooked it. Had I had done so, it would have saved me a lot of trial and error testing with no positive result.

Nevertheless I thanked you then and I thank you now, if you feel that you've wasted your time, well so be it.

Looking back over previous posts, you are obviously a major contributor to the forum and I would imagine that you have helped a lot of people, and it would be a shame it you feel that your participation has not been worthwhile.

Regards

calimerox
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i thi9nk braaimanook is right, forums are a fast medium, and sometimes too fast.. but its worth discussing things here, by reading posts i solve most of my problems and get inspired....

braaimanook
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Benjamin Scherrer

It is interesting to note your terminology in the use of track and recorded which is what is used with (tape) recording and with Ardour is correct.

It has become apparent to me that unlearning what you knew is probably the most important aspect to learning something new. How many times is it said that Linux is not Windows.

My background includes a period working in very large recording studios where the terms pre and post fade referred to the mixing desks not tape machines, although to be fair the term was channel not track. The terms there would be input, prefade would be the signal from the input plus any signal coming in from the sends and returns and then, the post fade level

In tape machine terms we used input, pre head ( which was the signal straight of the record head and before the playback head) and post head which was the signal from the play head.

In that context it marries nicely with what you say. I had been looking at it from the mixer angle.

calimerox

I agree with what both you and Benjamin say about the usefulness of forums. I cannot begin to say how much useful information I have got, not only from having my queries answered but also just from general browsing the forums, and long may they continue

Regards

the C.L.A.
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I think regarding the routing options and modularity Ardour and Jack provide, those are much closer to a real (analogue) studio than most commercial (Windows/Mac) products.

If you are familiar with analogue recording it should be relatively easy to understand how things work in Ardour, IMHO. You only have to keep in mind, that things like mixer, recorder, outboard, etc. moved a lot closer to each other. So "unlearning" those is not the preferred way, I think. ;) Additionally you could use Ardour as a recorder (and editor) only and do everything else on external equipment.

I guess this modularity makes it difficult for people who are not familiar with a real studio setup, but it's also what makes me very comfortable with it, personally.

Axel.

braaimanook
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Hi the C.L.A

It is my familiarity with analogue studios that gives rise to some confusion. By that I mean if I see a fader, prefade postfade switching, sends and returns, that says to me a mixer.

As you are aware, these are not terms
generally associated with recorders.

Equally tracks are thought of as being terms of recorders ie. 16T recorder etc.

It is the closeness of these otherwise separate items that gives rise to this confusion. Perhaps unlearning is the wrong term, maybe being aware of the fact that these terms now seem to be interchangeable

regards

paul
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braaimanook, i'm glad you've got your problems solved but .. (a) if you like the information flow on a forum, imagine IRC where you could have had your questions answered to arbitrary depth and more or less in real time (b) the place where you are seeing terms like "pre", "post", "postfader" etc are in Ardour's mixer strips. the fact that ardour is also capable of being used as a recorder should not blind you to the fact that those controls are connected with its functionality as a mixer.

also keep in mind that in a hard disk recorder the concept of "the play head" as an entity which pulls signal from the tape after the record head put it there really has no analog at all. there is no way to simulate this short of fetching data back from the disk, which isn't generally possible - its not even written to disk yet for at least 50% of the time. the best you could do is to feed the incoming signal straight back to the outputs, which is precisely what "software monitoring" is doing. this is not equivalent, however - it is specifically not playing a signal that has been recorded, but simply creating a short-cut between the input and output.

braaimanook
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Hello Paul

thank you for a very clear explanation of software monitoring.

As previously mentioned by another poster, the value of being able to browse posts in forums, is I think one of their greatest strengths.

However another poster and now you have mentioned IRC, so it seems that it the preferred method of contact. I have never used IRC, but have now d/l a client, so this is something else I will have to get to grips with, along with trying to sight read music, attempting to learn the piano,and MIDI and understanding and using the software, not to mention Linux. It is possible that somebody screwed up by giving us only 24H days.