ardour features

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zitoune@ardour.org
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Joined: 2006-06-12
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hello i thinks there is intresting features for ardour :

1) complete monitor section

2) complete vumeter windows whith rms/peak on each track ,input, output, bus, send,spectrometer, surrond vumeter, surround position......

3) surround panner

4) rec safe on each track

5) vumeter on edit windows

Olivier

paul
paul's picture
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Joined: 2006-03-16
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1) complete monitor section: please explain

2) vumeter window: we would consider to be more useful as a separate JACK client. We used to have a "meter bridge" window but it was found to be more confusing than helpful. i am also not clear about what you mean by the other items in your list.

3) surround panner: presumably you mean a standard N.n-style surround panner as opposed to the useless generic 2D panner we have now. It doesn't exist, but it could be written

4) rec safe : please explain. this is generally unnecessary in a DAW because recording is non-destructive. what do you mean?

5) vumeter on edit windows : if we had a vumeter it would be part of a mixer strip, in which case it would show up in the editor window mixer strip, or it would be in a separate window entirely.

BenLoftis
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Presumably by "monitor section" he's talking about the ability to listen to various sources, select outputs for multiple speakers, and do things like master volume, reverse stereo, mono, polarity inversions, mute/dim, etc.

Some of these features could be added to the Master Bus. But in my opinion this is best left to a separate JACK app because Ardour might be only part of a larger, JACK-enabled setup.

Markinoko
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For those who haven't heard of it, here's a nice jack application : http://plugin.org.uk/meterbridge. It has various meter types and will most likely cover any needs...

Marc-Olivier Barre,
Kinoko en Orbite

dx9s
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Joined: 2006-05-19
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2,4,5) skipped

1) not sure. Perhaps he is talking about solo (which there was/is a solo option)... Perhaps he is talking about routing the solo to a headphone instead of muting all other outputs. Not sure. -- Because of the flexability (by design) built into Jack, this is already possible but requires a little more work.

3) The 2D is close to what I want -- only it would be nice to have more function here. I'll take this time to expand on some ideas...

A button (or right-click or control-click) to bring up a larger dialog where one can access (adjust) more settings plus provide better positioning control + fall-off (controlling distance vectored attenuation) + delay (as a adjustable constant, per unit distance from source/sources to targets/destinations). I have a few more ideas.

I have studied (superficially) the works from Haas and his study of how the human brain/ear localizes sounds (see google "Haas effect" for more information). Delay tends to be *as* important to placing sounds as attenuation.

--Doug

zitoune
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Joined: 2006-06-12
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"Presumably by “monitor section” he’s talking about the ability to listen to various sources, select outputs for multiple speakers, and do things like master volume, reverse stereo, mono, polarity inversions, mute/dim, etc."

yes this is a complete monitoring section!
all this fonction in one windows would be great, peraps a jack apps would be the best way.

for meter brigde is perfet ! i don't know this before ! thanks a lot !

for the surrond, a graphical control and more fonctions will be helpfull.

for the rec safe , i know is not destructive record but a lock in track to avoid rec , editing...could be intresting

Best regards.
Olivier

dx9s
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Joined: 2006-05-19
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I have plenty of ideas for surround mixing.

The proper way is to have enough controls (position of virtual "speakers" / output channels, tweeking of attenuation per traditional X-Y position control, tweeking of delay some same X-Y position control, routing, etc.)

It could be done as post processing plugin, but then the extra outputs would need to be routed (and ganged) to additional busses.

The three biggest things is setting the 'fall-off' attenuation controls, better placement of output channels and a delay function.

Additonal a full X-Y-Z position would be nice with simulated environment and floor reflection (walls optional) so that sound that is close to ground or high from groun has the added benefit of an audable earily reflection -- the listener *hears* the height. This would also require FFTW lib access for controlling surface reflection parameters (simulating sound absorbed).

As said, it *could* initially be done as a plugin (LADSPA) and would provide a POC for those that are willing to post-plugin and test.

I am not a GTK/GTK2 programmer, nor have and ladspa or Jack exeperience. I have C and (not overly fond of) C++ experience... I could prototype the core functions with the idea that more guts will be coded. (including the GTK GUI and LADSPA).

I should post this as an IDEA for Ardour...

--Doug

Solv
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It seems that the protools implementation is quite simple yet effective. It has a simple xy window for the surround positions and a seperate fader next to it for the LFE control. It would seem like a lot of extra work to include delay and reverb and room height settings, that could effectively be done with plugins on the surround channels. I imagine for surround mixing ardour would ask if you are doing 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 and then ask you to assign which outputs are going to which speaker. It would then display a seperate small popup window when each channel was selected with speaker icons in the appropriate positions (let's face it, there isn't the need to have it as accessible in the mixer strip as standard pan controls, and trying to squeeze them in each fader strip would be quite messy and hard to see). These positions would have to have automation capability to be useful, and it would be nice if the resulting mix could then be exported to whichever format was desired (DTS,Dolby,SDDS), but I'm not sure how possible that part is!

dx9s
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I would desire a minimum of having X-Y position control (for source and a template for output sources -- tweakable output points is optional but nice), delay (on the order of up to 50ms at most) coupled with attentuation control. Additionally I am not talking about full order reverb. I am talking about ONLY simulating earily reflections off the floor. The brain is fully able to detect a sound near (or far away) from the floor and approximate height accousticly soley based on earily reflection. Full reverb is more complicated.

Making it a plugin in simply means the controls can be automated like other plugins can be automated. Also makes it available to other LADSPA apps.

Having a native (to ardour) would be more "logical".

It may seem wierd to want more than just attenuation (aka delay control), but if you study how the brain positions sound, it makes perfect sense. See the works from Dr. Haas. In particular the Haas effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haas_Effect).

--Doug

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