logged in payments not counting to downloads

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scrounger
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Joined: 2007-07-02
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Ok while logged in I have made a small donation to Ardour, while still logged in I attempt to download latest version, I am then asked for a further contribution before I download when I decline I am told I can only have the free version with limitations?

A similar thing happened the last time but it was apparently because I was not logged in.

This should not be happening.

I then attempt to make a donation but my credit card details are not accepted and paying with paypal will not allow me access to the full version.

this should be fixed.

paul
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Joined: 2006-03-16
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@scrounger:

1) donations do not count in the same way as a subscription, and I have tried to make that clear. Perhaps you have a suggestion for a wording change that would make it more clear?

2) the download page says this if you are not logged in:

You are not logged into the ardour.org website and so any payment you make here will not be taken into account for support or future updates. It is recommended that you register with the website before downloading ardour.

Do you have a suggestion to reword this to make it more clear?

I have no idea why your card details would not be accepted - what did PayPal actually say?

Every day, hundreds of people pay directly via PayPal and access the "full" version, so I do not believe that there is any "fundamental" issue there. Why do you believe that paying with paypal will not allow me access to the full version ?

WHammling
User offline. Last seen 3 years 42 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2010-06-21
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Actually, I've experienced similar problems with PayPal. As do a number of my colleagues. PayPal is not very good at explaining why. More scripted responses than actual dialogue about the problem. Which is one of two reasons I don't use PayPal. The other being I have a fraud action against them for draining my credit card to its limit. This has been going on for more than a, now and I'm no closer to a resolution, or to getting my monegy.

I'd really like to begin using Ardour. I think it would be the right solution for my evolving audio needs. But PayPal is not an option. Not even for credit card processing.

Can you offer an alternative?

paul
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@WHammling: in my investigations, there are no alternatives to PayPal that make sense from the point of someone in my position. This is unfortunate, but I can't do a lot about that. Every other alternative has some clear negative associated with it, and while I don't want to deny the individual cases of negative experiences that people have with PayPal, my sense that is they are no better or worse than any large US bank. My own interactions with, for example, Wells Fargo and Bank of America have been much worse than anything I've ever heard about PayPal (including your own examples). Google Payments did look like the best of the alternatives, but they have (had?) absolutely no framework for handling (a) something without a defined price (b) donations (i.e. no product changes hands) (c) subscriptions.

WHammling
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Joined: 2010-06-21
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Paul: the difference is that with BOA, I have recourse to redress an issue that rarely lasts more than a billing cycle. With PayPal, that's not the case. My action with PayPal has been going on for more than a year, now, and, to date, I've not gotten even so much as a response that they're concerned. Meanwhile, they've got nearly $15,000 of my money, and I'm out a credit card. See the difference?

I realize that such problems are not ubiquitous. And that many users use PayPal without incident. But the real measure of the integrity of a company is not how well things go when they go well, it's how well things go when things go badly.

So, at least for me, PayPal is not an option. But I'd still like to get on Ardour. I'd even be willing to send a check or a money order every month.

w

paul
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@WHammling; i think get into an online argument about which is the worse bank is pretty pointless. But suffice it to say that BoA screwed me out several thousand dollars too, damaged my credit rating and prevented me from taking part in a race I had trained for 6 months to do, and flown 3000 miles to be at. 4 years later, I continue to have to deal with stupid debt collection agencies claiming that its me who owes them money.

So it really doesn't work to use anecdotal stories: the fact is that right now, PayPal is the only company I can find that offers the kinds of transactional services that ardour.org needs. I looked into setting up a regular credit card processing account - that effort cost me several hundred dollars in fees that i missed even when the account was not active, and had i actually started using it would have cost me significantly more than PayPal does.

If you want to send a check, email me at paul@linuxaudiosystems.com and I'll be happy to provide an address.

WHammling
User offline. Last seen 3 years 42 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2010-06-21
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Sorry to hear about your BoA experience. 4 years is a long time. I stand corrected. As I said, it's not how well things work when they work, it's how well things work when they don't that matters. And that's clearly a case of not working.

Thanks for your help. I'll get with you on that address.

w