Euphonix MC Mix control

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JazzHot
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Hi everyone,

I just bought a Euphonix MC Mix controler.
Anybody who have this unit succeeded in using it with Mixbus?
So far I was not.

Thanks for any clue.

paul
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@jazzhot: euphonix have not made available any details on their control protocol so far. Thus, you can only use it as a generic MIDI controller, not with any of the fancier (and nice) features of the unit.

JazzHot
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@Paul
Thanks for your reply.
Well I am a bit disappointed here.
Hope something will be done cause like you said it is a nice peace of hardware.
I am using it with Logic. Pretty cool.

I will send a note to Euphonix for sure....

Regards

seablade
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@Jazzhot

Some users have had success using it in Logic mode. I can't tell you much more than that unfortunately without access to one, but apparently it can emulate Logic/Mackie control protocol, and that is how I would use it with Mixbus.

Seablade

JazzHot
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@Seablade

Hope somebody chimes in that know how to emulate Logic/Mackie control.
In the mean time I will try a search.

Thanks again Seablade

JazzHot
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@seablade
I have succeeded in using Euphonix MC Mix with Mixbus but only for transport controls.
Also I corresponded with the Harisson support and here are a few words from them regarding control surfaces:
Control surface support on Mixbus is currently pretty limited. It supports the Logic Control Protocol (ie Mackie Control Universal) and MIDI controllers. That is an area that we plan to improve in the future.

Just hope for Euphonix Artist users that it would be a not to far future ;o)

Regards

seablade
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@JazzHot

Considering I am one of the people with the most knowledge of the Logic control code in Ardour and Mixbus, I can clarify that a bit. Logic control currently supports a single surface(No extenders at this time) that supports the logic control protocol. The Logic control protocol is very similar to the Mackie protocol, and in fact the primary differences are related to LCD updates IIRC. The Logic protocol is also very different from the generic midi support, as the Logic protocol supports banking of faders and pan in Ardour/Mixbus, something coming to generic MIDI in Ardour 3 as well, but not quite the same.

The people that have told me they have gotten the Euphonix to work with Mixbus, have told me that they have done so by putting the MC Mix into Logic mode, but I do not know the details of how to do that since I don't currently posses one and the manual isn't really clear on how to do this, sorry. It should work with more than just transport controls in this mode though.

Seablade

transco
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@JazzHot

Would you please post how you got this working. What settings did you use for EU Control and Ardour? I've tried, but so far no luck.

JazzHot
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1- install Euphonix drivers from their CD
2- Under system preferences, click on the Euphonix icon, select your Network interface.
3- Drag the Mixbus icon from your application folder into the Euphonix window you just opened.
4- in the same window under protocol, choose MackieControl and you can close that window after that.
5- Launch Jack Pilot and under it's preferences select Mode "hog"

You will also need MIDI Patchbay to configure MCU in and MCU out.
You can download MIDI patchbay from the Internet.

Don't forget to launch Midi Patchbay first then Mixbus.
Once in Mixbus select Mackie under Options/Control surfaces.
Add a couple of tracks and you should see Euphonix faders leveling to 0db for those tracks.

I hope I did not forget anything.

seablade
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5- Launch Jack Pilot and under it's preferences select Mode "hog"

In most cases this should no longer be needed with the newest version of Jack, and has more to do with Audio I/O than with control surfaces.

Seablade

JazzHot
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@seablade
The last Jack version is 0.86 right?

seablade
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@Jazzhot I believe so yes.

Seablade

transco
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@JazzHot
Thanks for the information. I finally got it most of it working. Channel Faders all work. Transport controls work OK with the exception of the Jog wheel. I think I messed that up long ago with my attempt to assign control functions directly to the program. For some reason the Jog wheel isn't even sending out any MIDI codes when rotated. No idea how to fix this other than going in and making my own assignments again. Last time I used Shift-Option-Left Arrow (Jog left) and Shift-Option-Right Arrow (Jog right). Movement was much too course to be of any use when editing. (Come to think of it, it might have been 'Snapping'.)

Have any of you that have this working had to do anything special as far as the Jog wheel goes? I can't help but think that if I hadn't messed with it in the first place it probably would be working now. I did do a 'Restore to Factory Defaults', but still no joy.

seablade
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I can't speak from the point of view of the Euphonix, but on my Mackie the Jog Wheel can be quite useful. I don't usually use it for editing persay though, more for searching and zooming and rough placement IIRC.

Seablade

transco
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@seablade
Can you tell me the Left-Right rotation MIDI codes your jog wheel is generating? Do you also have a Shuttle wheel? If so I'd appreciate the MIDI codes for that as well.

seablade
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@transco

I will have to get back to you on that as I need to head home and don't have my mackie with me at the moment anyways, kick me if I don't respond in the next couple of days to get this to you.

Seablade

transco
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@seablade
The jog wheel controller codes my MC Control is generating are: '60 00' for right-rotation and '60 64' for left-rotation. Neither of which have any effect. From what I've read, these should be: '60 01' for right-rotation and '60 65' for left-rotation. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to fix this.

seablade
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Hmm... I managed to forget my Mackie again today sorry. I am glancing through the spec and all of your options seem incorrect though I don't have time to fully study. You should be getting something along the lines of...

B0, 3C, **

Remember, we are in actuality using the Logic control protocol with Mixbus, not the Mackie Protocol which is slightly different in a couple of different ways, though I don't remember this being one of them. I would need to capture a trace from the Mackie to be certain on the setup of the last 4 bytes of the message.

Seablade

JazzHot
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@transco
There are only two available control for the MC Transport Wheel that is Shuttle and Jog.
You have to program two Keys, one for Shuttle and the other for Jog.

transco
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@JazzHot

I've done this with other programs, but when I try to set up it for Ardour those options are grayed out... no way to select them.

JazzHot
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@transco
I did it in Mixbus easily.
I guess it must be different for Ardour for some reasons.

transco
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Assuming that I somehow trashed the usual jog and shuttle wheel settings, I tried using the 'shift' equivalents. In this case I was able to make the wheel settings, but unfortunately, it still output the wrong MIDI codes... 60 00 and 60 64 instead of the needed 60 01 and 60 65. I've got a call into Euphonix to see if they know how I can change this.

JazzHot
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@transco
Have you tried a restore to factory default.
This option is available when programming keys.

transco
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@JazzJot

Yes, several times.

JazzHot
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@transco
I am sure you must know but just in case.
After a restore, the only two options you have to program some commands is Mackie control and Transport.
Mackie Control does not work.
Your only option is Transport.
There are 7 or 8 commands available in Transport and for me I found out that RTZ (return to zero) have a strange behavior. All the rest works fine.

Logic Pro is a charm to control with Euphonix. Hope to see it with Mixbus one day ;o)

transco
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@JazzHot
Actually, I don't know. At what point you have the option of making the 'Mackie / Transport' 'selection? Sorry to drag this out, but I've successfully set up EuControl for other applications and never had a problem. For example, I have an old copy of 'Live'. Control surface is set to generic Mackie. It however does respond to MIDI jog wheel codes '60 00 (CW)' and '60 64 (CCW)', which is what the MC Control is cranking out. Those same codes don't work with Audour2. I tried a borrowed Mackie control surface and found that Ardour2 does respond to MIDI '60 01 (CW) and '60 65 (CCW)', which, according to my documentation, are the standard Mackie jog wheel codes. Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to get MC Control to generate those codes.

seablade
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@transco

I am fairly certain those are not the logic control codes that we have programmed into ardour(Or are part of the Logic Control spec that we have implemented, NOTE that it is not the Mackie spec that is implemented though the differences are minimal). How exactly are you coming up with those captures?

Seablade

seablade
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Oh you are using the decimal values, that is the confusion, most of the time when dealing with MIDI you would be referencing the Hex values, not the decimal equivalents. Gimme a bit while I dig into the code we have however the second value out of the pair you are listing is not very clearly defined in the logic spec IIRC...

Seablade

seablade
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@transco

Ok I figured out why Live seems to work with it, the short answer is that the DAW is being told that there is a jog wheel event, but the number of clicks the wheel turns is 0, so therefore Ardour does nothing, which is one of two possible actions, the other is what Live does, which is to assume that there is always a click, even if the surface does not indicate one. This is not clearly spelled out in the specs that I can see, so either may be valid--- but in all honesty chances are that the Euphonix is in the wrong here as it should always be reporting a delta value. We can obviously change our code to match what Live does, the question is which way we believe is correct. When John originally wrote this code, I was testing with a Mackie and he was testing with a BCF, the Euphonix MC series didn't even exist at the time. As a result both of our surfaces seem to more correctly match the actual spec, and always emit a delta value it seems, which the Euphonix does not.

For the record, the presence of the 64 bit is what determines the direction the jog wheel was moved, the lesser bits are all the delta of the movement only. So really you shouldn't ever get 64 and 00, you should be getting 65 and 01 at least for a single click is my understanding, and obviously my Mackie matches this as well.

Seablade

transco
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@seablade

Thanks for the detailed explanation.... all makes sense now. Sorry about the decimal. The program I was using 'MIDI Monitor' speaks decimal and I didn't think to change it to the more conventional hex notation. Anyway, I guess this is the end of the road as far as this issue goes. I've laid all this out for Euphonix Tech Support, but, based on past experience, it is unlikely they will do anything about it. other than say that they don't support Ardour'.

Just one item left ( http://ardour.org/node/3891#comment-22875 ) that's been driving me up the wall.

paul
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@transco: a fix for this is now in ardour's SVN repository for version 2.X and 3.0.