Problem recording audio from Muse-Rosegarden with Ardour GTK2

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malcom
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My configuration:
Ubuntu-Studio 10.04
Pentium @1GHz 512MB Ram
kernel RT
Sounblaster Live! Platinum with Live!Drive

I have Jack started with qjackctl
and i would like to record audio with Ardour from outputs of Muse/Rosegarden midi,
in order to convert a midi into a wave file.
Both Muse and Rosegarden load soundfonts in Wave table of SB Live! (hardware synthesizer)

The problem is that i dont get to record audio from the output of Muse/Rosegarden
midi file (playing them with hardware synthsizers emu10k1 port 0) into Ardour wave track audio input 1 (for example)
I have tried to route the connections from jack and also within Ardour but no signal
seems to be routed to Audio input of Ardour when Rosegarden or Muse play a MIDI file

Different situation is for Hydrogen. With Hydrogen, routing its output to Ardour in the signal

meter you can watch the level and so you are able to record it into wave track in

Ardour

Note: jack transpose work well with rosegarden and muse too.

So, anybody could help me? if needed, i could add more details

thank you anyway

malcom

stratojaune
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Not sure, but maybe it can be ok if you plug (in QJackctrl "connections" tab) the capture outs to the Ardour ins.

Could you tell if you hear sound from Rosegarden ?

malcom
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stratojaune, thanks for your answer.

Yes i'm able to hear sound from rosegarden

When i set-up Ardour to record audio from Rosegarden, i connect Rosegarden-->OutL
and Rosegarden-->OutR to Ardour-->Input1 and Ardour-->Input2 in the Audio tab of
qjackctl window.
Previously Rosegarden load (in its configuration) soundfont .sf2 file on wavetable of SB Live!, so i get the sound from speaker but in not able to record it!

This is my understandign from tutorial of Ardour
But now you are saying the i need to connect System-->Capture1 and System-->Capture2 to Ardour-->Input1 and Ardour-->Input2 to record in Ardour audio from midi file played by Rosegarden, is it correct?

thanks

malcom

stratojaune
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You welcome Malcom !

I'm not sure about "capture", don't have soundfont on the sound card here. When you test things like that, always have a finger on the OFF button of your sound system, and don't play loud will be my word...

To be clear, what you search in QJack audio tab is the sound source you like to rec : so play a MIDI file in Rosegarden, and disconnect one by one every OUT in QJack, till there is no sound anymore. So, the last disconnected OUT have to be plugged IN Ardour, and that's it !

But first, you have to be sure that QJack "knows" your sound. Means, in Rosegarden audio settings, everything is ok ? No mute or zero-level ? You try to connect the good track from Rosegarden ? The sound doesn't go to Pulseaudio instead of Alsa thru Jack ? The sound doesn't go directly from the card to the speakers ?

Good luck, with no irony.
Fred

malcom
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stratojaune,
im very frustated about that because im trying to work it out since 3 weeks!!!
Starting from basic point,
i have set up Rosegarden to load one soundfont into wavetable of SB at the startup
then, i can hear the sound of a midi file played by RG, without having connections in audio tab of Qjackctl!
Frankly i dont know what it means

The only way to have no sound from Rosegarden playing back, is to disconnect in the alsa tab of Qjackctl the Rosegarden Midi output (left column) from the emu10k1 port 0 (Midi port of hardware synth/wavetable)
in RG audio settings i have checked "Use of jack transpose". Indeed the sync between Ardour and RG work. but no sound coming from RG goes to Ardour.
Do you know any other settings i can do in RG audio parameters?

The very strange thing is that Hydrogen Outputs are correctly routed to Ardour: Ardour can hear hydrogen. But maybe Hydrogen doesn't use soundfont;
what kind of synth hydrigen does use???

You said "You try to connect the good track from Rosegarden ?
What you mean for good track??
"The sound doesn't go to Pulseaudio instead of Alsa thru Jack ?"
Is there a way to check it?
"The sound doesn't go directly from the card to the speakers ?"
What would you mean?

thank you very much

malcom

oskar48
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"but no sound coming from RG goes to Ardour"
[...]
"Ardour can hear hydrogen"

In Your case Rosegarden is not making any sound, it only sends midi notes to hardware soundfont synthesizer in Your soundcard. You need to make connection between soundcard synthesizer and Ardour - I'm not sure how, even maybe connecting hardware output to the input with the cable. Hydrogen is software sound module so making this connection is easy - you just need to use Jack. Maybe You should consider using QSynth - software soundfont player - it does exactly the same thing as Your sondcard but totally in the software realm - so it's easy connectible with Jack.

lokki
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it's obvious:

the sound you hear is not synthesized in software but in hardware (as you wrote) so you can't record it in ardour via softwareconnections (qjackctl). hydrogen is different, the sounds are coming from the software directly.

you have two options:

1. get a cable to connect your physical output with your physical input and connect system_in to ardour track you want to record to.

2. route the midi in rosegarden to a midi file player that can load soudfonts. check out timidity++. in fact you could just open the midi file in timidity and then save the file as wav there. so no need for ardour and rosegarden in this case!

hope this helps...

malcom
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thank you oskar48
thank you lokki

The fact that i'm using hardware sytnh is because im convinced that it's more effective without latency with respect to the software one. Is that correct?
And moreover i would like to use this capability of my old Soundlaster Live :)

but it seems that it's not possible to route it for audio recording

My goal is to use midi backtrack, playing over with my guitar (line-in) and record both into audio file,
which is the best way to do it?

lokki said
you have two options:

1. get a cable to connect your physical output with your physical input and connect system_in to ardour track you want to record to.

But there is not risk to have to a signal looping with unstability of sound issue ??
Connecting headphones output to Line-In2 and putting guitar to Line-in what could be the result? i believe that i would not hear the sound of my guitar ...

lokki said
2. route the midi in rosegarden to a midi file player that can load soudfonts. check out timidity++. in fact you could just open the midi file in timidity and then save the file as wav there. so no need for ardour and rosegarden in this case!

timidity++ can convert midi to wave?
cool. but it could use the sound of hardware synth?

anyway also rosegarden and muse could load soundfound automatically

thank you very much

malcom

stratojaune
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QUOTE : You said "You try to connect the good track from Rosegarden ?
What you mean for good track??

You can have several OUT for Rosegarden, and have to plug the good one

QUOTE : "The sound doesn't go to Pulseaudio instead of Alsa thru Jack ?"
Is there a way to check it?

IMHO, the only thing to do with PA is to remove it from the system !!
There's a command line to see what is active, from memory something like "ls...", see man ls for more info

"The sound doesn't go directly from the card to the speakers ?"
What would you mean?
Exactly what Oskar48, or Lokki said before, the way you do, the sound goes : Rosegarden MIDI out >> IN sound card OUT >> speakers
and Jack don't know it !

Could you tell what you have as physical IN and OUT on your sound card ? (mini jack I think?)

malcom
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I have Soundlaster Live Platinum with Live!Drive
and i have setup qjackctl in setup dialog input device hw:0,2
and output device hw:0,3
that makes
readable ports
system-->capture_1 to system-->capture_16
writable ports
system-->playback_1 to system-->playback_16

When i start Rosegarden, in the audio tab only to Readable port are created:
RG-->OutL and RG-->OutR

malcom

oskar48
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"The fact that i'm using hardware sytnh is because im convinced that it's more effective without latency with respect to the software one. Is that correct?"

I don't think so... I use QSynth and it's working rock solid in realtime, so latency is not an issue. Using software is more comfortable (Jack connections instead of cables), and quality wise it's probably also better - no unnecessary DA/AD conversions. Try it and see for Yourself. Sound quality depends mostly on what sounfont You use. If it's standard SoundBlaster soundfont, than You should google for some other - there are few much better free sf2 libraries out there, e.g. Fluid.

malcom
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Good morning
i have some interesting news about this matter
I get recording Rosegarden/Muse midi file into wave track of Ardour!!!
I have done that:
-Changing settings for jack from Qjackctl->Setup for the input device:
new > hw:0: old was > hw:0,2 (multiple 16 fx input)
-In Qjackctl->Connections now i have only two System-->Capture_1 and System-->Capture_2
-Then in alsamixer in Capture Tab i have set Capture flag ONLY to "Synth" channel
-In Ardour route System-->Capture_1 and System-->Capture_2 to Input_1_Left and Input_1_Right
-Playing back a midi file in rosegarden/muse with sf2 loaded in wavetable, NOW it's possible to record it as wave file in Ardour

But it's not all fixed!! :(
Indeed, the quality of the recorded track is very poor!!
I have a good soundfont loaded (playing midi file it's possible to appreciate the good quality of that)
but after recording, playing back the audio track shows noisy and low quality signal.
What is wrong?
midi file playback is good, but recording it as i have described above i get a bad track
in Ardour. There is something to set in Ardour?? (im usign 48000kHz sample rate set in jack)

thanks

malcom

lokki
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hmm, strange. can you tell us a little bit more or even give us a link to the generated file? is it playing to fast or too high? are there clicks and pops, or is it just noisy in a "vinyl" way. or like a radiosignal...

concerning timidity:

you would load the soundfont in timidity, then convert to wave. so no need for the hardware synthesizer in this case.

malcom
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lokki,
it seems that anybody like using buitl-in hardware synthesizer ...
anyway, the track i get with ardour is like a very bad quality synth generated, similar to windows sw synth with distorsion at low frequency.
For example the sound of bass guitar is mostly covered by a sort of white noise. Also the other instruments appear different from what i can hear during playback with rosegarden/muse.
Can you confirm that the "Synth" channel in Caputer tab of alsamixer matches to hardware synth of the soundcard?

thanks

malcom

stratojaune
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Malcom,

the Alsamixer tab in QJack is only for MIDI exchanges between applis/hardware, no sound here.

The sound covered with pink noise looks like digital saturation. What about VUmeters in Ardour ??

malcom
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new day new update
maybe i have fixed my main problem

indeed, setting jack-->input Device to hw:0,0
i get to manage the input to be recorded from alsamixer

So, opening Ardour you have automatically System-->Capture_1 and System-->Capture_2 (now, the only two Capture ports)
routed to Ardour-->input1_L and Ardour-->input1_R.

The only thing to do at this point is to go to alsamixer, set the "Synth" channel in capture mode, start record from Ardour, and you get there!!!!
Very easy!

Moreover, enabling capture also for channel "Line-Live drive" in alsamixer i get to record my guitar

So all the input to be recorded (Synth + Guitar) have to be managed by alsamixer and recorded into one single Ardour track.

no xruns, no noise, and a good quality of recording

But, now another problem arises

I dont get sound from my front speaker anymore!
(speakers are connected to LineOut of the SB Live)
i get sound only with headophone connected to Live!Drive
you have any idea about that?
I have tryed again to set alsamixer, unmuting everything in play-back but i dont get any note form LineOut

and another question?
how to convert easy and fast wav file to mp3 with ubuntu-studio?

thanks a lot

malcom

stratojaune
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If you're lucky enough to have the good package installed (can't remember its name) all you have to do is a right click on the wav file, and choose "convert to mp3" in the popup menu

Else : http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialMP3.html

And, maybe alsaconf command will resolve your second problem (don't know if include in Ubuntu)

malcom
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Hello
It seems that i have fixed most of my problems recording with Ardour
Anyway a big trouble is still present
It regards Rosegarden
I can't get it working properly, with Ardour but also standalone
from the error messages that i get using Rosegarden, i can figure out a problem with Jack. infact the messages are related to the handling of RG audio section by jack

do you have any hints to fix it?

thanks

malcom

antonvdh
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You can only do this with an external synth like zynaddsubfx which you choose in ardour instead of rosegarden.

see this tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCmzk58MNL8&feature=channel