Draw Gain automation tool

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scardanelli
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Thanks for the tip on this Ben, however, can you clarify a couple of things.

If there is existing fader automation - this overides it? I can't quite see how the relationship is working - I see my fader moving as per my existing automation, yet if I make a dramatic drop using the tool in the region, I hear the level drop, but the fader remains moving as per existing. Confused? You bet!

Also, what would be the simplest way to reduce automation overall by say half a dB? Let's say I'd automated a vocal track, lots of moves. Then decided to reduce whole vocal by .5dB - easy way to do it?

By way - I tried the IRC - but though I could log in and see my status - couldn't type - I've never used the IRC before so forgive my ignorance - how do I add some text??

Cheers!
Simon

calimerox
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you can select all the fader automation points (keep left mouse button and move) after that you can raise/lower all the points by grabbing one point and moving it the amount you like. I m not sure how accurate in terms of decibels that is though, have a try.

Also, what would be the simplest way to reduce automation overall by say half a dB? Let's say I'd automated a vocal track, lots of moves. Then decided to reduce whole vocal by .5dB - easy way to do it?

scardanelli
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Tried that - all points turn green, adjust one and it's just that one that moves.

OK, what you have to do is select all by dragging left mouse, then click Command and use the tool, - er no, that worked once, now it doesn't....

seablade
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If there is existing fader automation - this overides it? I can't quite see how the relationship is working - I see my fader moving as per my existing automation, yet if I make a dramatic drop using the tool in the region, I hear the level drop, but the fader remains moving as per existing. Confused? You bet!

It does not override it, the two automations work jointly. It is important to understand the difference between the Region Gain automation and the Fader Automation. The Region Gain automation just affects the sound in that region, nowhere else. It will not be represented on the fader because it is not fader automation. The fader automation on the other hand affects all sound coming out of that track. It will obviously be reflected in movements of the fader as well.

Going off memory, I believe Ben uses region gain automation for most complex automation, and then uses fader automation to modify the overall sound, much in the way you were asking about. It is a different workflow than what I personally use, but it works well for him obviously, and for others.

So to answer your question based off the above...

Also, what would be the simplest way to reduce automation overall by say half a dB? Let's say I'd automated a vocal track, lots of moves. Then decided to reduce whole vocal by .5dB - easy way to do it?

What I believe Ben was suggesting, is to draw the automation via the region gain tool, then to use the track fader automation to apply your .5dB overall change for instance. The two automations work together so this will obtain that affect well. Of course in Mixbus there is also the TRIM control as well that can be automated to provide this if you already have fader automation done, but that will apply amplification before any processing, so it may not be what you want.

All this being said, feedback on how to issues you have with current automation in Ardour/Mixbus is welcome;) I would suggest dropping an email to Harrison for that.

In as far as IRC, it should just be you type int he text and hit enter, how did you connect to IRC, via the Help>Chat link?

Seablade

scardanelli
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OK I didn't get that it was region level basically, understand that now.

Just tried the IRC again and I cannot type anything, weird.

Want to contact Ben/Harrison with a crash report, I don't seem to have his e mail in my system so will check on here somewhere. Meanwhile, the odd fader locking scenario persists, can't say what I have done before to make it appear, but it's def automation related. Also, I cannot add nodes with the white cross when this happens, and usually when I quit and re-load, MB won't go into play. I quit and reload again, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and I have to Force quit.

Simon

BenLoftis
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Hi Simon,

Harrison's email support is: mixbus@harrisonconsoles.com

Regarding a trim of all automation: You can rectangle-select all of the automation for the track and then move it together by dragging the LINE (not one of the points.... this is not so intuitive, and is being changed). Another option is to use the channel's "input trim" as Seablade suggested. Or if you want it post-everything you can use the compressor's makeup gain. Both of those controls are currently buried in the little popup window accessed by the button below the fader. Finally, you could add a simple trim plugin post-fader.

Regarding IRC: In the web-interface, you enter text in the box at the bottom of the window. There are many different IRC chat apps available if you don't like the web-interface.

Regarding fader-lock: If you have the automation in "Play" then it won't let you grab the fader. Maybe this is the issue?

I'm not familiar with the other issues. Maybe someone on this forum has seen them and can help.....

-Ben

Ricardus
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Regarding dropping the track a half of a dB, isn't there an amplifier/volume plugin that you could put last in your plugin order, and lower the track by half a dB?

seablade
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@Ricardus

That was Ben's point about the makeup gain:)

Seablade

kelleydv
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Region gain automation makes more sense to me now, thanks seablade.

As for adjusting the level of an automated track after the fact, I like to simply feed the track into a new bus.

For example, suppose I drew all my automation for two guitar tracks and now I want to adjust the overall level of the "guitars" in the mix.

1. Create a new bus (in this case stereo for two guitars)

2. In JACK, disconnect the 'out' of each guitar track from the master 'in'

3. In JACK, connect the 'out' of each guitar track to an 'in' of the new bus.

Now the fader of the bus adjusts the overall level of the two guitar tracks. I like using this hierarchical scheme for mixing in Ardour.