Send behavior in pre and post

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Scary-Hallo
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Hello,
maybe it's just because I do not understand tracks, busses and sens correctly.
I have recorded a song in Ardour 2.8.11. A few mono tracks. I created a stereo bus to place my reverberation plug-in.
Now, when I put a send (pre fader) and connect it with the two inputs of the bus, everything is OK. But when I do the same thing post fader I have only a signal at the left side of the bus.
Some ideas?

Benjamin Scherrer
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Hi,

I'm running current svn of Ardour2 here, and when I create sends, I have to add the number of send outputs manually.
Is this differently in 2.8.11? I remember that Ardour once created the same number of send outputs than the number of channels in the track... Well anyways, you could simply alter the number of send outputs by double-clicking on the send.

Hopes this helps a bit,
Benjamin

Scary-Hallo
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Not really. In both cases I created two outputs, one for the right side and one for the left side of the bus. When I place the send (with two outs) over the fader (pre) everything works. But wen I place the 'send' below the fader (post) I receive nothing at the right side of the stereo bus.

Benjamin Scherrer
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Thanks for the further information - this is a bug I can reproduce. Hang on, I'll reply in just a little bit again.

Benjamin Scherrer
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Ok, the thing is the following (and is more a design question than a bug)*: There is only 1 signal stream in a mono track. So you can only use the first output of a send, additional outputs will not get any signal from the channel. Simple workaround for your situation is to create sends with only 1 output and feed this output twice into the stereo bus. The result is the same as if you would create a send with 2 outputs which have the same signal on it - the stereo bus gets 2 times the same signal L/R in both cases.

*EDIT: This was a false conclusion but I don't like deleting my errors, read the following post which gets it right.

So why does this behave differently in post-fader postion even if there is also only 1 signal stream present**? I don't know, maybe the idea had something to do with the pan, but than the pan comes after the post-fader inserts, plugins and sends.
So I think it's a minor bug that this behaves differently, but both will create the same result. I'll check out irc and ask what's right here :)

**EDIT: Because this behavior is correct, again read following post - maybe this post will shine some light on the functioning of sends and tracks ;)

Best
Benjamin

Benjamin Scherrer
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Hi again,

either I'm too fast or too slow tonight.

I correct myself again: You describe a real bug I've now reported here: http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=4264

The workaround I described in the preceeding post works (use one send output twice); however, pre fader should behave like post fader because atm, you cannot use the send internal panner pre fader right now. Post fader behaves correctly, and something around the pre fader send pan control is wrong.

Best
Benjamin

Benjamin Scherrer
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Scary-Hallo,

I will get to bed *soon* - I've reread your post and realized that you are experiencing the reverse behavior than I do. Here, post-fader works ok, pre-fader not. Anyways, let's use the workaround I described and hope the devs will give me a deus ex machina wake up tomorrow ;) Sorry for the confusion, I only wanted to reply quickly ;)

Best
Benjamin

Scary-Hallo
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Sorry Benjamin,

I hope i didn't keep you from sleeping. But I found out something. On that song, I was talking about, the send looks like this:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9693/screenshotsend4.png

I opened an old song then, where I remembered it worked well. And there the 'send' looks like this:
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3845/screenshotsend1.png

The difference is down left. On the actual song I have two panners. On the old song I have one. Both are mono-tracks and both are placed post-fade. I figured out, when I bring the first panner to the middle everything works OK. The second panner has no effect as far as I see.

Benjamin Scherrer
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Hey Scary-Hello,

hehe no problem, I simply underestimated the complexity of the problem ;)
Yes, you're right: Somehow the wrong panner layout is chosen, it should only be 1 panner (mono panner) not 2 (true stereo panner). I also reported this to mantis. Glad you found an even better workaround than me :)

Best
Benjamin

Scary-Hallo
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Thanks for reporting this to mantis.
But once I know this, I can live with it.