Windows?

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spider87
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I think there should be a way to run Ardour with windows not all of us have linux and I know i should get it because its more stable blah blah but i just think there'd be more of a crowd if you added a windows version too...

paul
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well, there is a windows version. but its not ready for general use yet.

second, you seem to assume that the crowd we would get from there being a windows version is a desirable thing. many other *nix open source projects have been overwhelmed when they have ported to windows - a huge, sudden influx of users with zero background in software development, and no infrastructure to offer them support. we don't want to end up in that situation.

when the windows version is ready, and when we can feasibly support windows users, we will announce it.

Seb
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my thoughts entirely. ardour is still digesting the mac crowd...

(ducks)

Bodega
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As part of the "mac crowd" for the last 15 years I can't say I disagree.

We're rich in music professionals, but not so rich on the code-literate. Having to even see code is very non-Mac.

That said, seeing Ardour in action makes me tempted to take a night course or something so I can help move things along. But alas, there are only so many hours in the day....

For now I content with telling everyone I know who knows programming about it.

paul
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Digesting? Hah, we're chewing you up and spitting you back out! Come on over from the dark world of It Just Works! The water's fine, the mojitos are sweet, and we provide the toolbox for you ...

(double ducks)

Seriously, we love our small but growing OS X crowd, and still hope for big things on the platform. Your support for the full stabilization and completion of the GTK-native-OS X project will get us much closer.

holycow
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as someone now doing sys admin i second the windows notion not to ship until its ready and until the project can in some way provide support for them.

windows users ARE THE LEAST DESIREABLE user group out there to pursue. this isn't a slam against them at all, it is just a reality that they are taught that being cheap (i.e. not willing to pay for the true worth of something, just look at the warez scene, i know whole businesses running on warez - though not for much longer) is actually a good thing, and when they do pay a few nickles for something they expect that they don't haveto learn anything to use it properly. oh and if you dare tell them that they are 'undertrained compared to other user groups such as mac users or linux users, you won't believe how offended they get - afterall they know how to use a mouse and google therefore they are totally computer saavy.

i believe the above notion that the project should carefully choose its audience and stage its development to expand in a controlled manner will lead to a very healthy relationship for the users and coders and anyone in between over the long term.

this has to be the first time i've seen anyone actually articulate this point of view in a gnu project, thats super cool!

Havoc
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I do understand the reasoning and think it is sound reasoning.

But would it be possible to have some understanding for people -like myself- who have left MS behind, but:
- are no programmers themselves
- are learning linux as well as ardour at the same time
- don't understand things (that are obvious to someone using this for years) as fast as a veteran linux user
- coming from another way of working

I know that I will ask a lot of seemingly trivial questions. But if you guys want to expand your userbase, please be patient. The documentation isn't always a solution.

Thanks.

daniq
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->Holycow: I think that there is a group of W users who WOULD be desirable... Actually, I don´t have to decide whether "my" computer will run Linux or MSW or whatever, because it is my father´s PC and I don´t have any decision rights there...
I would only appreciate, if Ardour included support for VST plugins and instruments, I have some nice ones which I don´t want to throw away...

daniq
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And think about ASIO support, too. I don´t know whether there is any reason not to develope it...?

Havoc
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Is there a reason to develop Asio? Alsa/Jack is more than capable and has more features IFAIK.

alexlgt
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ASIO support would (I assume) allow audio interfaces not supported by ALSA/JACK to be used with Ardour.

I guess there's no chance of a screenshot of the Ardour win32 dev version? ;) It might be nice to see how it's shaping up.

sampo
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ASIO is nothing more than a driver API. It just offers audio software a more efficient, callback orientated programming model.

Jack also provides a callback orientated programming model for software, but it also provides a mechanism to transfer audio between applications.

Jackdmp on windows will work on any sound card with a proper driver - just as jackd and jackdmp on Linux will work with any device with a proper driver.

daniq
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Bloody spammer...

Well, what I meant, was that not every soundcard supports Jack, if I am not wrong (or maybe it does, but with some performance issues...?). The power of ASIO is therefore the fact that there are some freeware / open-source projects like ASIO4ALL which allow me to use my old SB Live! with fairly low latency of about 6 - 8 ms + FX processing time without the need of buying a pro sound card, which I currently cannot afford and won´t be able so for next year. I guess that the reason why to look for an open-source HDR project is that I cannot afford buying a pro one and therefore it sounds likely I wouldn´t be able to buy a pro soundcard to use with a free / O-S DAW.... SO: Without ASIO or 250 Euro to buy Delta 1010 LT, Ardour has no use for me. And I suppose that there will be a few other guys like me... Ardour in general, and the idea itself, sounds very delightfully to me... I will at least try to spread the website to my friends from the game... ;-) and one day I´ll learn to program and I´ll be here to put my hands to work...

philicorda
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You can get low latencies with an SBlive with the standard ALSA drivers and Jack.

There is nothing magic about ASIO, it was created as a workaround to bypass the high (>30ms) latency and 16bit audio limitations of the old Windows MME/KMixer system, and to provide a standard for control of hardware monitoring on 'pro' cards.

All sound cards, even the awful built in ones on motherboards, will operate with low latency in Linux as far as I have tested. (Assuming realtime kernel etc.)

I know this as I use an old box wth an SBlive as a softsynth box running Zynaddsubfx. Also, my ancient laptop with it's ymfpci card is perfectly happy at 256 frames.

I welcome any corrections to this... I can only relate my own experiences of making use of computers and soundcards most people would chuck in the trash. :)

daniq
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Ok, thanks. I am a newbie to everythink else than MSW and I must learn... Now I am downloading a distribution of Debian and I will work around a bit to get my Ardour do its job.

sampo
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For more about hardware support for ardour, read http://ardour.org/system_requirements/audio_compatibility

oskar
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I don't quite understand the reasoning. The problem is that there is a very small userbase for audio applications in linux. I'm a fulltime linux user at home, but in the studio I simply do not get around windows: vst, dx, reason, reaper.
But most importantly reaper. And Reaper thrives on is it's userbase. A lot of technically completely underskilled audio engineers that dream about the perfect daw in the forum.
I hope that you're not seeing the cockos crowd as rivals... They made what I consider the greatest DAW I ever used with not nearly the means of companies like Steinberg. I hope that Ardour can learn from their success and bring it to Ardour. I do understand that Ardour is a completely different animal. That doesn't mean that it can't work the same way, right?

forart.it
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I really would like to see Ardour on Haiku, instead...

www.haiku-os.org

Marco Ravich

Orypeci
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I'd really like a Windows version too. Macs and I don't mix very well [don't ask] so all I have is a Windows XP.

benhoff
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Releasing XP version ......
What would happen if you released a windows version to beta testors in a limited and controlled way? One of the best audio editing programs, imo, Cool Edit, was bought by Adobe. I miss it and you seem to have the same kind of spirit as Syntrillium did. I'd love to join and be a beta testor. Are you allowed to restrict distribution of beta software by locking it to a certain computer's ID? I get that in some of my sequencing software, I think. Anyway, good luck with this project. It sounds as if you have some integrity.

qharley
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I was pulled into linux (rather sucked in) when I sat up my home studio. My MS box had a few demo versions of software on it, and obviously it did not do the job I needed it to do. So off the the shops.

After getting the hardware I needed, the budget was sorely lacking for software. I had 2 choices. Linux or warez.

Took me a while to get used to linux, but I can now do everything I used to do in Windows, but more efficient, and more stable.

MS is a good all round OS. Sometimes you just need a specialist to do a special job

Windows- -;

Havoc
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One of the best audio editing programs, imo, Cool Edit, was bought by Adobe. I miss it...

This is what drove me to linux. I still miss it for it's audio restoration capabilities.

breakerfall
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I'm a little confused how you were driven to Linux by Cool Edit being bought out by Adobe. They released it under a new name, but it was the exact same version as cool edit pro 2(.1). Same software, new name and new owner.

It's called Adobe Audition. Perhaps the newer versions have had a graphical face lift, who knows...

I have to admit, I also really enjoyed using CEP, it was fun to use. The UI was very intuitive and really clean. I even loved the fact it had an integrated WAV editor. It's been a good few years since I've used CEP though.

jordannb
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I'm a Linux user, but every once and a while I want to do some recording on a Windows laptop. Is it at all possible for you to give me the Windows version? I will NOT expect (or ask for) support of ANY kind. I just want to have it to play around with and make music under Windows. I'm used to unstable software and won't mind if there's some bugs in it. Thanks! :)

Slavebell
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Im a S.A.E. institute student and whan i saw Ardour in S.A.E. magazine i was thrilled!! But now i see its not for Windows... Cmon people im not useing warez, i buyed all my samples and vst-is, and now i need just great recording software. Since i know for shure ill never have Nuendo i beg u pls relese windows version. Please!

Danni
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Slavbel - Check your Hardware compatibility with linux... You are going to SAE which means you are already learning to use Mac - one more operating system isn't going to kill you.

Provided you have hardware supported by Linux you will find that something like Ubuntu Studio will allow you to use Ardour. It comes with the latest version of Ardour pre-installed and is pretty straight forward to install and setup on most pcs. You can also go for a live CD where you can run Ardour from a disk... I think studio 64 does this.

Pablo Fernández
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Yes, you can try 64Studio live CD. It won't hurt. You can have a dual boot system Windows/Linux with UbuntuStudio or 64Studio. You can even run lots of windows applications in Linux (wine). And it's free (as in fredom) software. Give it a try with the Live CD. www.64Studio.com

forart.it
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For those who are interested in using/developing/supporting an open source Windows (but multiplatform too) DAW, please switch to Traverso:

http://traverso-daw.org/

Marco Ravich

TomB
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I'm sorry, but Traverso doesn't even come close...

Anyway, I'd wait with a Windows version as well. GNU/Linux is becoming a great OS for audio production, and having a great DAW that isn't available on Windows might attract more people to GNU/Linux.

forart.it
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> I’m sorry, but Traverso
> doesn’t even come close…
>
...at the moment...

> GNU/Linux is becoming a
> great OS for audio
> production, and having a
> great DAW that isn’t
> available on Windows might
> attract more people to
> GNU/Linux.
>
Please check out this article:
Why Not Help Linux?

Linux is Intended for Servers
Linux's kernel is primarily intended as a server operating system. Yeah, yeah, there are tweaks that have been made to the sources to help with responsiveness on the desktop, but they have not been made official part of the kernel.

That's why i would really prefer an Haiku port.

BTW the team is not interested...

Marco Ravich

philicorda
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Paradoxically, Beos was designed for low latency audio but never seemed to achieve it in real life, while Linux was not originally designed for low latency but can work very well.

A lot of people assume Beos was a good low latency OS, but very few people used it, even fewer had a supported sound card capable of low latency, and even fewer got it working. I never did anyway, despite having ALL the sound cards it supposedly supported.

I hope Haiku improves on this, but I think you are in for a long wait....