Recordind 2 tracks simultaneously resulting in reverb like?

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Alchemikos
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Hello

I'm newbie a lot but I wanna to learn the recording skills for my own songs, memory problems and mind hehe

So when i record a guitar track everything gonna all right, if I record one voice track and one guitar too.

But when I record 1 voice splitted in two tracks mono simultaneously the results is like i had sang inside a reverb box. Like ozzy in 80's hehe

The same happens with a duplicate guitar track.

if I record one track, and copy to paste in another new track the same happens.

If I record different line guitars in two tracks the same happens if the same riff is played.

How could I fix it?

I use : Slackware 14
Alsa and jack at simple setting.

Thanks

LeatusPenguin
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First of all, you are saying that you are duplicating tracks? If you duplicate the same source to two tracks you will still have mono. If you allign them differently, you will have phase issues. I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, or related to the problems you are having, but it's possible. If you are doing this, it's best to record two separate takes.

You say you recorded line guitar into two tracks? Do you mean you recorded them separately or at the same time to two different tracks? Bottom line is, if you record the same source to two tracks, or copy the same source across two tracks, it is still going to be mono. If those two tracks are out of sync, even slightly, you will have phase issues. I'm wondering if this what's causing your problem? If so, the only way is to record those tracks separately.

Apologies if i misunderstood your question. Can you give more information and i'll see if i can help more.

Alchemikos
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Sorry about my poor English hehe I'll try again

The mono or stereo isn't problem. For example

I will record a guitar;
I'll put to record in two tracks at same time, so i 'll have two exactly guitars;
When I playback there's a reverb;
That persist forever, the dammed reverb heheh;
I export the work and there's it.

Any duplicate track result like that.

I take care when copy/paste regions to tracks and sync it viewing with 'big' zoom as possible.

But is better we use the example 1 record in two tracks = reverb.

If I mute 1 of 2 twin tracks, the reverb gone away.

LeatusPenguin
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Is there any other way to describe the effect? Is it definitetly a reverb effect?

Alchemikos
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Or a chorus.. I'm uping to you tube not listed.. The 2 ways, :)
First with chorus/reverb and after one track muted without side effects

LeatusPenguin
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The only thing i can think of if you are recording the same source to two tracks and are coming up with a chorus effect is that they are out of sync. May i ask why you are recording two of the same source/duplicating tracks? If you are doing this to get a bigger sound, you'd be better off recording 2 separate takes.

Alchemikos
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Ok

I just played some Alice in chains that was in my mind right now.
I sang in example because in the twin voices tracks the trouble is more clear than with guitars

Don't laugh for the vocals, :D, really I 'sing' in overdrive in a metal band, like, death, kreator vocals, so clean voice is terrible to me heheh

First two twin tracks mode ON
AFter audio 2 is muted

You will see the ' audio 2' track muted and not in the video image

the link
http://youtu.be/s10NKif1h5A

joegiampaoli
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Just as Seablade said, the best way to get a fuller sound of a guitar is double-tracking it (two different recording takes) and then panning them (one left and the other right) is what makes it sound great. Recording two tracks with the same take is going to do nothing but just make it louder and will still sound as one split-mono guitar.

seablade
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For the record I didn't say anything;)

Seablade

Staying out of it till he is fairly confident he understands what is trying to be accomplished. And on little sleep this could be a while:)

seablade
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Ok I went back and watched the video, I think I understand the problem...

Question, if you right click on the region you have duplicated, and go to the region editor, do all the times and levels match precisely between the original and duplicate regions?

Do you have any effects/plugins/etc. on either track? Does bypassing them make any difference?

This is all ignoring the excellent advice given to you above about doubling vocals.

Seablade

veda_sticks
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that sounds like a phasing issue caused by the 2nd track being out of sync by a small amount. ive had the same thing happen using a hardware reverb unit that has be set to complelty dry signal, even with the predelay set to 0 you get the same effect since there will be a slight delay in processing in the reverb unit.

ardour does seem to have some latency compensation issues, ive tested this by using the internel click track and recording them to multiple tracks at the same time, and they are all out by small outs with the internel click.

Ive not really found a way to sort this.

You could try nudging your track back and forward, though im not sure why you would want and exact duplicate of a track since the same track twice is just going to be louder.

veda_sticks
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On a plus note another trick to getting a fuller guitar sound form just 1 guitar and make it sound more stereo, is using 2 very short delays 1 panned left and 1 panned right, and set the left delay and right delay different. etc 26ms and 46ms experiment with the delay times.

seablade
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@veda-sticks

Ardour should not have any latency compensation issues that cause this so long as any processing is reporting it's latency correctly. If it does then that is a VERY significant bug and should be addressed ASAP. Along with this it is not an issue I have ever experienced, and I use tricks like this fairly often to parallel compress or to treat different tracks, etc.

Also the trick with delays, while also one I have used, has a very significant downside in that there is absolutely no mono compatibility. This can be a problem, for instance I have run events with videos that use the same stereo widening trick and while my site had an LCR system so I could pan the sound away from the center cluster over the screen and lose my imaging, at least the video didn't sound like crap. Other sites however only had mono systems and had no alternative short of pulling half the signal in order to maintain clarity. Not something you think about to often these days, but still has to be thought about.

Seablade

veda_sticks
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I have just duplicated the same problem with my setup.

2 mono tracks, both enabled to record so both tracks are getting the same mic single.

Result?

Phasy sound.

If i make clicking sounds its obvious thers a delay between the first track and the 2nd, it must be in the 80ms range.

paul
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Please post the output of the following command (once you have your ardour session up and running) from a terminal window: jack_lsp -c

veda_sticks
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This is the output with the session open that i reproduced this phasy sound by recording 2 tracks from the one source.

system:capture_1
   PulseAudio JACK Source:front-left
   ardour:Audio 1/in 1
system:capture_2
   PulseAudio JACK Source:front-right
   ardour:Audio 2/in 1
system:playback_1
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-left
   ardour:auditioner/out 1
   ardour:master/out 1
   ardour:click/out 1
system:playback_2
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-right
   ardour:auditioner/out 2
   ardour:master/out 2
   ardour:click/out 2
system:playback_3
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:rear-left
system:playback_4
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:rear-right
system:playback_5
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-center
system:playback_6
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:lfe
system:playback_7
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:side-left
system:playback_8
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:side-right
PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-left
   system:playback_1
PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-right
   system:playback_2
PulseAudio JACK Sink:rear-left
   system:playback_3
PulseAudio JACK Sink:rear-right
   system:playback_4
PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-center
   system:playback_5
PulseAudio JACK Sink:lfe
   system:playback_6
PulseAudio JACK Sink:side-left
   system:playback_7
PulseAudio JACK Sink:side-right
   system:playback_8
PulseAudio JACK Source:front-left
   system:capture_1
PulseAudio JACK Source:front-right
   system:capture_2
ardour:master/in 1
   ardour:Audio 1/out 1
   ardour:Audio 2/out 1
ardour:master/in 2
   ardour:Audio 1/out 2
   ardour:Audio 2/out 2
ardour:master/out 1
   system:playback_1
ardour:master/out 2
   system:playback_2
ardour:auditioner/out 1
   system:playback_1
ardour:auditioner/out 2
   system:playback_2
ardour:Audio 1/in 1
   system:capture_1
ardour:Audio 1/out 1
   ardour:master/in 1
ardour:Audio 1/out 2
   ardour:master/in 2
ardour:Audio 2/in 1
   system:capture_2
ardour:Audio 2/out 1
   ardour:master/in 1
ardour:Audio 2/out 2
   ardour:master/in 2
ardour:click/out 1
   system:playback_1
ardour:click/out 2
   system:playback_2

EDIT: Put PRE tags around that so it can be read, your routing seems weird but will come back to it later..... Seablade

veda_sticks
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I zoomed into the waveforms of my tracks and the 2nd track is definatly out just by a very small amount, i nudge the first track forward a little to line the waveforms up and now it sounds fine with out any phasing.

paul
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you are recording a different signal into each track (capture_1 and capture_2), not the same signal. if they are not perfectly aligned, that is likely to be a h/w issue rather than anything to do with ardour or JACK. you can test one side of this by making Audio 2 take input from capture_1 (only), just like Audio 1. record like this - if there is any phase difference (its a delay, really) then that is ardour or JACK; if there isn't, then your problem is h/w related.

veda_sticks
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This has fixed the problem thanks paul :D

Sorry about the confusing connections i forgot i have jacksink setup so that i can still get sound from non jack programs. I disconnected pulseaudio playback and capture incase that was causing the problem. Performaced the same test recording 1 mic in to tracks at same time. Same phasey result.

I then connect just audio capture 1, to both input mono input mono channels leaving capture 2 out of the equation.

Playback of the 2 recorded channels from same source are now not phasing.

I never used to have this problem in an earlier version of ubuntu (10.10) as when using the microphone input only gave you one capture port. since the microphone port is just a mono input not a stereo.

Jack is automatically connecting capture 1 to the first track, then capture 2 to the 2nd track. Not really a bug since it must assume your using 2 mono tracks as a stereo.

The bug must be someone in the new audio drivers that are created a stereo configuration for the a mono input, well on my onboard hardware anyway and the original posters hardware.

Alchimikos - try what i have done, either using the jack patchbay, or using patchage, disconnect capture 2 from the tracks and make sure you only use just capture 1. this should hopefully solve your problem.

I only discovered this problem because i thought id help by seeing if i could reproduce it, as i have been using a Tascam wave recorder as a mic and using my line in not used the mic in on my card for a while. and those have been stereo tracks aswell.

i might test this further by testing both capture inputs into the 1 track but i expect the exact same result.